shieldborne | Negotiations (for buildsomething)

Tony can't help but blink once -- he'd been expecting something like I think we'd have fun, not this sudden outpouring of honestly. It makes his eyes flick away for just a moment, finding something fascinating on the far wall. He's not good with heavy emotion, never has been. Giving or hearing it.

But this is something more than just offhandedly suggesting a fun evening. At least, Tony's pretty sure it is. But either way, everything he's read has been very clear on the fact that open communication is important. So if they're doing this, he's going to have to suck it up.

"Okay," he says, making himself meet Steve's eyes again. "So, to be clear. I do want to try this. With you." He lets himself fall quiet again. Then, since Steve's admittance is probably worth something in reply, "I trust you."

Steve's never thought of himself as particularly emotional, but he does prefer to be honest when he can. Maybe letting it out was partly to help him sort himself out, too, because now that he's spoken he seems to relax subtly, the brief blush fading again.

He's watching Tony for his response, though, with the same focused, analytic blue stare of the night before. He's not completely sure what he sees, but he's sure he doesn't see fear or reluctance or anything to suggest the other man feels pressured. Good enough.

He smiles a little, nodding. "That's a start. And I'm glad you trust me. I trust you, too: to be able to tell me what you want and what's too much for you to take comfortably."

"So...I can tell you what I like and what my limits are, but I don't want to influence you. Do you want to go first?"

The smile that flashes across Tony's face in return is wry. "Have you ever known me to be particularly easy to influence?" Last night aside. It all seems foggy in retrospect, but not...uncomfortable. At least, not the parts with Steve involved.

And that's really the crux of it. He wants that back, that easy comfort. The ability to just reach out without worrying about appearances or personas. Knowing someone could or would just take care of him for a moment.

Problem is, he's still not entirely sure how to ask for it.

He lets out a long breath and reaches up to scrub a hand through his hair. "We remember that I have no idea what I'm doing here, right? You...clearly do. So we'll start with you."

"Is that a trick question?" He fires back, almost reflexive, and now his eyes are sparkling again. But it's a fair assessment. Tony is almost as stubborn as Steve is. They're more likely to butt heads than for one of them to railroad the other.

He sobers again when he's offered the floor, and nods, taking a moment to think it over. Not because he doesn't know what he does and doesn't want, but because sorting it out into words is tricky.

"What I like on the receiving end and what I'm comfortable giving are very different things," he says after a moment. "When I'm subbing, I want to get hit as hard as the other person can hit me. Literally and figuratively. It's like I want the pain to just...remind me I'm strong enough to handle it. And orders so I don't have to think too hard."

"Just for your information. I know we're not working from that angle." At least not to start with. Terms are negotiable as they go forward.

"When I'm topping, my first impulse is usually aesthetic. Artistic bondage, wax play in colors, that kind of thing. It's relaxing, putting someone into positions where I want them and just enjoying the results. I do sketches sometimes, with permission. Usually I let the other person keep them for privacy's sake. It's more about the process, anyway."

He glances at Tony's wrists briefly, as if checking for the bruises that were there the night before. "With pain play, I'm really leery of impacts. It takes a hell of a lot of concentration not to hit too hard, so if that's something you want to explore, just know it's a lot of work for me and I may have to call a stop if I feel like my control is off."

"And I just don't like heavy humiliation, giving or receiving. Kneeling or crawling are on the table, but I'm not going to verbally abuse you. I'm more likely to be...encouraging."

There are still faint marks around his wrists. Tony had almost forgotten about it, though following Steve's glance at his arms makes him almost want to cover his hands for reasons he can't quite identify. He doesn't. Mostly out of sheer stubbornness.

There's a lot to think about to take his mind off of it anyway. The idea of Steve subbing is startling -- and okay, that will teach him to make assumptions -- in a way that's already sparking ideas, but definitely needs to be tabled for later. Much later, probably.

"Let me start," he says slowly, fingers tapping an absent-minded rhythm on the desk in front of him, "by saying I'm willing to try a lot of things. In general, yeah, but with this especially. I don't know what I like yet, and I don't think I'm going to figure it out if I don't actually experience it. But."

He takes a breath and forces himself to hold Steve's eyes. "I don't want you to hit me. I definitely don't want you to insult me." Those, at least, he's very sure about. There's a lot of connotations there, with who they are and what they do. Even in a controlled setting, Tony's pretty damn sure that wouldn't go anywhere good. "I'm not looking to be taken down a peg or brought to heel or anything. I just...

"I think a lot. You may have noticed." He smiles a little wryly. "Somewhere in what happened, I stopped thinking so much. That, I liked. A lot."

Steve nods calmly, watching Tony's face. There's no sign of discomfort there beyond the very-much-expected uncertainty of exploring something new and intimate. "I like that you trust me to try to give you that," he says quietly.

He's relieved to hear Tony isn't looking to be humiliated. It's such a solid, hard limit for Steve, and he'd hate to have to send Tony into someone else's arms for something so delicate. He smiles a little, echoing the other man's expression.

"I think we're on good starting ground, then. Like I said before, I've done a lot of this kind of thing in a non-sexual context, but with you...I want sex to be a part of this. Is that something you want, too?"

His ears are pink, a subtle blush, but he forces himself to clarify, "And if so, I want to know whether you're comfortable with giving and receiving oral, and/or with me fucking you, during a scene."

Steve Rogers just said fuck. Tony looks a little like he's having a harder time processing that than the rest of the conversation.

"I. Sure?" He says, once he's shaken his head to clear it. "I mean, all of my experience with guys is years old at this point, but it's not exactly the kind of thing you forget." And sex with Steve is...not something he can see himself turning down. In this context or out of it.

Though that does bring something else to mind. "So if this is a sexual thing...and a recurring thing, I think?" His tone lifts at the end to make it a question, but it's more rhetorical than not. "How exactly would we be defining this relationship?"

He's a scientist, he likes having names for things. Sue him.

Captain America does not swear. Steve Rogers, however, has an absolutely filthy mouth. You don't grow up in Brooklyn in the '30s without learning all kinds of useful dirty words. Besides, 'fuck' is a better word than most of the other terms he knows for it, which mostly range from clinical to comical.

He's amused by Tony's reaction, though, and his lips quirk briefly. "Just double checking. Not everyone likes everything."

He licks his lips absently, trying to think of what else they need to go over, whether this should be written out...and then he raises an eyebrow at Tony's question.

"Tony, did you just ask me to go steady?" He deadpans, but his eyes are twinkling. "I don't have a pin to give you, but I'll see what I can do about getting one."

Steve doesn't see a need to define this at all, clearly. But he's trying to be conscientious for the sake of Tony's peace of mind, and his own. "In all seriousness, I don't know. Are you looking for terms like 'lovers' versus 'friends with benefits'? Or something more like 'dom' and 'sub'?"

Tony makes an extravagant show of rolling his eyes, even as the word sub makes him pause for a heartbeat. That's what this is, and he knows it, but something about having the actual word submissive out there feels...off. Unsettling. Stark men are made of iron.

He pushed all that to the side with a wrench of mental effort. More things to pick apart later. Really, this entire thing was giving him more insight into his own mind than most psychologists he'd ever seen. Whether or not that was a good thing remained to be seen.

"Defining the relationship, smartass," Tony says dryly, as if his brain isn't whirring away at ten other things. "Fuckbuddies is fine, but is this monogamous? That kind of thing."

That eyeroll makes Steve feel like they're on more familiar territory. If there's any hesitation or trepidation behind it, he misses it for the moment. And probably there are dozens, even hundreds of euphemisms they could choose for the game they're playing, but Steve is not that interested in the semantics. At least not yet.

He chuckles at Tony's quip, nodding his understanding at last, and drums his fingers on the table thoughtfully. "Like I said earlier, I'm not in heavy circulation these days. Dating is awkward, and one night stands don't do anything for me."

He's not trying to sound judgmental. But like he's told Natasha, it's been hard to find someone with shared life experience. Steve's not looking for instant commitment, but someone he can connect with on some level is just important. "So...yeah. I'm not going to be looking on my own account."

"I don't want to cramp your style," he adds. "But I think I'd prefer if you didn't sub for anyone else. Sleep with whoever you want, I mean, but if you're okay with it, I'd rather keep this between us. How do you feel about that?"

One of Tony's eyebrows twitches into something wry. It's not as if he's not well aware of the general opinion on his relationships. Even if they are nothing like they used to be, he does have a reputation for a reason.

But he does at least take a pause to think about it. The other night had been an aberration for a lot of reasons, though he doesn't blame Steve for possibly assuming otherwise.

"Agreed," he says finally, simply. Honestly, if Steve hadn't been there, that first experience probably would have been enough to put him off the entire thing. He's not all that eager to try again with an unknown and he's far past the age where he felt a need to try things just for the sake of trying them.

"So the next question is. What do we say if someone asks?"

Steve may be a little biased. Somewhere under the stripes and spangles he's partly still the awkward 90-pound invalid who got dragged on double dates by his best friend, and never did learn how to approach women with charm and aplomb. (With the possible exception of Peggy, who he learned to approach by following her lead, hence most of his success with her.) In short, he's used to assuming everyone is having more sex than him, and that's fine. Plus, Tony is aggressively charming. If his metaphorical dance card isn't full, Steve assumes, it could be.

He smiles at the agreement, nodding, and then goes pink again as he considers that question. The team will figure things out no matter what they say. At least, they'll pick up on the fact they're sleeping together, and probably be content to not ask about the details of those sessions. That'll be awkward, but tolerable. The real problem is if someone outside the team starts asking obnoxious questions. The Avengers aren't exactly media darlings, but someone, somewhere, might seize upon their intimate affairs as a way to sell magazines.

He really doesn't like that idea.

"I...don't know about that one," he says quietly. "Obviously the others will know, sooner or later. That's no big deal. Aside from that...You're the one who's had press conferences before. What would you say?"

He can't really argue on the first part -- being a nosy bastard is practically part of the job description even if they didn't all live together, but it's not like the team is going to judge whatever they get up to. Well. They might give them shit for it, but Tony's pretty sure they're at the point where nobody's taking it seriously.

For the rest...Tony exhales hard as he leans back and folds his arms across his chest. "Depends," he said finally. "There are different ways you can play it. Obviously the...details of it are nobody's business but ours. But if we were going to actually go public with a relationship."

He trails off, eyes going distant as his brain runs through all the options at once. Well, there was always a possibility that they could just keep everything to the tower and spend the rest of the time as business as usual. But even to Tony, that feels wrong somehow. Maybe they aren't going steady or however Steve phrased it, but he's not going to pretend it means nothing to him just because the press can be assholes.

"Honestly," Tony says slowly, letting himself focus back in on Steve, "I'd be most willing to just wait and see if anyone noticed and then play it from there. But you're the one who'd be catching the worst of it. There's nothing anyone can say about me that hasn't been said before and everyone knows it. But you...you haven't had a major scandal yet."

Steve can take teasing from the team. Friendly harassment is a long way from bullying; it's just how comrades-in-arms show affection. He learned that thoroughly in the army, although he and Bucky were assholes to one another long before that. Anyway, Tony is one of the more enthusiastic people he knows at giving him shit, so surely it won't be so bad if they're both on the receiving end. ...Right?

The phrase go public with a relationship actually gives Steve a chill. Nothing good has ever come of him being in the actual limelight, and the idea that he owes any kind of explanation of his own doings and desires to anyone other than those closest to him goes right against his grain. The clench of his jaw and sudden stillness says more about his thoughts on the matter than any words he might dredge up could.

Except then he thinks about Tony and how he's dealt with all this bullshit for years somehow. He doesn't doubt it's one of the many things he needs a break from thinking about, and his gaze softens as he searches the other man's face. "There's no reason it should be a scandal."

"No, really. I know people will frame it that way if they want to, for whatever reason they can find." Bad boy Tony Stark seducing the innocent Captain America? It'd sell magazines, he imagines.

"But maybe it's time I took a stand, anyway." No one really asks his opinion on political or social issues, and that suits him fine, but if or when it comes out he's in a relationship with another man, people will be asking.

He shrugs, awkward and a little sheepish to find this is so much more complex than he expected. "I think waiting and seeing what happens is a good idea. There's no reason to make it anyone else's business before we've settled into it."

Tony quirks an amused look at him -- just because there's no reason it should be a scandal doesn't mean someone won't try to find a way -- but wonder of wonders, he just lets it go. Gives Steve a slight shrug and a flicker of a smile.

"Fair enough. And there's always a chance this whole thing turns out horribly and we never want to try it again and then it's all a moot point anyway." That's Tony. Always trying to give himself an emotional way out, just in case.

But he just clears his throat. "So anything else we need to cover? I do have a request, if you don't mind."

Steve has no doubt someone will find a way. He may not have much firsthand experience with the media, but he been unfrozen long enough to make some observations. Maybe it's the Information Age. There's so much data, commentary, supposition and extrapolation available, none of it has to be of any quality. It just has to catch peoples' eye.

"I think we should be able to continue to work together even if we screw this up," Steve tells him with a wry little smile. "But I don't think it's going to be a disaster. I wouldn't...pursue you this way, if I did."

He may not be able to make Tony's life any easier with this, but he doesn't aim to make it harder, either. "I think we should make a list of soft and hard limits, but we don't have to do it together. And a safeword, unless we're just going to use green, yellow, red...but I have a request, too."

"We can start with yours."

It's the word pursue that makes Tony pause for just a second. It's not that he doubts Steve's intentions at all, and he's clearly on board with everything, but a dark part of Tony's brain still can't help thinking that this is something Steve is just willing to help him out with. That it's for his sake. Reminders that no, Steve is definitely into this, wants this, are still catching him off guard.

He'll get used to it. Probably.

As it is, he shakes his head slightly to clear it. "I told you I'm pretty much willing to try anything, right? And I am. But I'd...like it if you told me what was going to happen, first. I don't need you to narrate everything or something like that, but like. A quick rundown before we get started. Let me know what to expect."

Hopefully, it will help him handle his reactions better. He may be willingly giving up control at least for a little bit, but he's never quite going to be able to stop trying to manage the world around him. He thinks Steve is already aware of that, he's not exactly subtle about it. But it doesn't hurt to get the point across.

"What's yours, then?"

Hopefully, once they're actually doing things rather than talking about them, Steve's enthusiasm for this will be harder to miss. He's been thinking about it already, trying to work out scenarios that will get Tony into the headspace he wants and deserves without nudging either of them too far from their comfort zones.

So, then, Tony's request makes perfect sense. "I think that's supposed to be best practices anyway," he says. "Especially when you're starting out. What I think I want to do first, if you're amenable, is mostly just light to moderate bondage. And maybe make some drawings of you, if you're all right with that."

A blindfold might be interesting, too...but one thing at a time. Steve takes a breath and reaches across to put his hand over Tony's. "Maybe it's a dumb, but I want to kiss you. Outside the context of a scene."

To establish physical intimacy, would be the easy, lazy way to explain the urge to do this, and he's tempted to fall back on it, aware of how sappy he sounds right about now. But Tony's been doing his best to be honest, so Steve will stay the course, as well.

Bondage is fine, that's pretty much where they started with this to begin with, the askance look Tony can't quite suppress is more at the idea of just...hanging there while Steve draws him. It's not that he objects, he just can't imagine that someone as, well, twitchy as he is will do well with enforced stillness. But what the hell, he's trusting Steve with the rest of it. If he finds it objectionable, he'll say so.

But Steve is still talking. Tony blinks once in response. And then lets out a completely startled laugh. Out of everything they've talked about so far, kinky sex and all, that's what Steve feels a need to specially request? The incongruity of it is amazing.

"Really? That's all?" Tony's still grinning wide like he can't help himself. All showmanship, he suddenly throws his arms wide. "Why wait? Come kiss me, you fool."

Steve will just have to try to make sure he doesn't get bored, and be prepared to interrupt his sketching if he does.

He's clearly not sure what to make of that laugh; he hesitates, somewhere between backpedaling and hackles going up. Of all the things they've discussed today, asking for a kiss makes him feel the most vulnerable, maybe just because he's done bondage scenes without sexual content, or maybe because...maybe because Tony. Goddamn Tony Stark.

He's not sure whether this has to do with him being willing and trustworthy or whether Tony has some kind of attraction to him specifically. And it really is enough to just be trustworthy, particularly knowing how many emotional barriers Tony has. Still, who doesn't want to be wanted on their own merits, just a tiny bit?

"Well," he protests mildly, relaxing a little as he finds that grin reassuring rather than mocking, "like I said, not everyone likes everything."

But he's game to take the invitation, sliding closer on the edge of his chair and pulling the other man into his arms, resting his palm against the nape of his neck. He feels like he should have, in effect, a parting shot here. Something Shakespearean: Peace! I will stop your mouth.

It can wait. He seals his lips over Tony's gently and sighs, letting his eyes close.

Edited (Post coffee rereading.) 2017-06-06 13:55 (UTC)

Tony is very good at deflecting, always has been. Give him an inch and he'll talk circles around anything. Even when he's being completely honest, there's almost always still something he can't help but hold back, some level of snark and affected disinterest that keeps him just a little distant from everything. It gets him in trouble more often than not, but it's a very old defense mechanism.

And for all that, it's very hard to maintain that distance in the face of one gentle kiss. Tony thinks he might understand a little why Steve was so uncertain about this one thing in face of everything they've been talking about. If Steve had gone in for deep, dramatic liplock like Tony half expected, that would have been simple. Sex is easy, everyone just looks for a good time and that's the end of it. This is...not that. There's an emotion here that Tony's having a hard time placing, and isn't sure he wants to yet.

It's light and it's almost sweet, and Tony lets out one soft exhale and leans into it. Maybe he's just caught up in the moment, but he doesn't try to push for more, doesn't try to make it anything dirtier. Just lets it be what it is.

Yes, well, he's talking to a guy who carries a shield, and there's a certain appropriateness to that choice of weapon. Steve's defense mechanisms are a little different, but boy are they there, and nearly as stubborn as Tony's.

But this; this has potential to breach walls for both of them. Steve's pretty sure whatever they get into from here on out, he'll be revealing as much of himself as Tony is. It's an intimidating prospect, but worth it. Very worth it if the kiss is any indication.

He was half prepared for something theatrical, although he comes into the contact with the most gentle of intentions. Steve likes kissing, and has as long as he can remember. Close physical contact is very much his vice, as well, if it can be called a vice. He leans in until there's very little air between them and deepens the kiss, all unhurried softness. His thumb traces small circles on the back of Tony's neck, and he makes a low, satisfied sound before drawing back to let them both breathe.

"...yeah," he says, with a slight husky edge to his voice. "That's what I was lookin' for."

Just that touch on the back of his neck makes Tony shiver a little, though the kiss isn't helping. He's a tactile person at heart, but it's not something he lets himself indulge much in. Too easy for it to go badly with the wrong person. Something like this, intimate but not overtly sexual is exactly the kind of thing he often finds he wants but is never sure how to ask for.

It's a helpful reminder that if this all goes the right way, he won't have to.

"Yeah," Tony echoes, his own voice a little rough, and he can't help letting his tongue quickly sweep over his own bottom lip. One tiny kiss and he already feels slightly off center. This is either the best or worst idea he's ever had.

"Probably a dumb thing to ask," Tony murmurs, mouth curving into a slight, amused smile, "but does this mean we're doing this outside of the whips and chains routine? Because I'm okay with that."

This time it's Steve's turn to let out a surprised little laugh. He leans his forehead against Tony's, another soft, intimate gesture. "Nah. It's not dumb. More or less what I was trying to figure out. But you have a way with words I don't."

He's smiling, eyes hooded and peaceful. It seems likely that he's just as affected by this as Tony. Lazily, he slides the hand on the back of Tony's neck up to ruffle his hair at the back of his head, apropos of nothing but affection. "Seems like the answer to both our questions is 'yes'."

His smile widens a little. "I mean...we don't have to do the whips and chains routine at all, but definitely not all the time. Just this is pretty good."

The faint humming sound Tony gives in reply is undeniably pleased. Now they're definitely getting somewhere. Not that he can just leave it there.

"Just this? I don't know about that." Tony's smile flashes to something almost wicked for a second. "'Cause I have to tell you, I've had a few thoughts about your uniform and me on my knees."

Now this line of conversation is much more in Tony's comfort zone. Between that and the physical contact, he's lost any of the tension he might have had. But even though he's teasing, it doesn't mean he's not completely serious about it.

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